Episode #6: The Hidden Crisis in American Trucking: A Conversation with Shannon Everett of American Truckers United
In this episode of U.S. Manufacturing Today, host Matt Horine welcomes Shannon Everett of American Truckers United (ATU). Shannon shares his deeply personal journey in the trucking industry and exposes the systemic issues that threaten the livelihoods of American truck drivers. The discussion covers the alarming rise of non-domicile commercial driver’s licenses, wage dumping, fraud, and the overarching impact of illegal immigration on the trucking sector. Shannon outlines the survival strategies and necessary reforms to protect American truckers, emphasizing the importance of legislative action and public support. The conversation reveals the hidden challenges within the American trucking industry and underscores the broader implications for public safety and national security.
Links
- American Truckers United Website
- ATU X Account
- Shannon Everett LinkedIn
- Navigating Trump 2.0
- Revitalizing U.S. Manufacturing
- Sign Up On The Veryable Platform
Timestamps
- 00:00 Introduction and Welcome
- 00:10 Guest Introduction: Shannon Everett
- 00:37 Shannon's Journey In The Trucking Industry
- 02:55 Challenges in the Trucking Industry
- 05:02 The Impact of Foreign Commercial Drivers
- 10:36 Investigating CDL Anomalies
- 18:41 Proposed Reforms and Solutions
- 25:48 Call to Action and Conclusion
Episode Transcript
Matt Horine: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome back to U.S. Manufacturing Today, sponsored by Veryable. I'm your host, Matt Horine. Thank you for listening over the past couple weeks, and we have an exciting program today.
Our guest is Shannon Everett of American Truckers United. ATU is dedicated to advocating for the rights and wellbeing of American truck drivers and carriers focusing on issues like wage dumping, illegal immigration and broker reform.
Today, we'll dive into Shannon's personal journey in the trucking industry, discuss the current state of the market, and explore the reforms necessary to ensure a brighter future for American truckers.
Shannon, welcome to the show.
Shannon Everett: Hey good morning Matt. Thank you for having me.
Matt Horine: Absolutely. Thank you. So I'd love to start off with your background and your story. I know you mentioned that you're a multi-generational truck driver, but would love to hear more about your background into the industry and we'll get into what's gotten you here today.
Shannon Everett: So I grew up in the trucking industry. My dad was a trucker and owned a small trucking company, and so I spent my childhood really seeing my dad gone a lot. Whether it was when he was driving a truck, he was always gone, or even when he owned a trucking company, [00:01:00] he was gone a lot. But I also got to spend time with him up there at the office and driving forklifts and putting trucks into the dock. And so it was pretty easy for me at the age of 18 to decide what I was gonna do and to get involved in the trucking industry. And so I got my commercial driver's license as soon as I turned 18, like the week of my birthday. Quickly.
I spent probably a year or so driving and working on docs before I left and tried some other jobs for a little while, and when I came back my dad put me in the office and so I went into dispatch, worked in dispatch for a while, moved into sales, and at the time we only had about 50 trucks when I was dispatching. I was the only salesman at the time that we were there, so we never had a sales staff other than me and my old man, and we were able to expand that business from 50 trucks to almost a thousand.
When I got into sales originally, we were doing some spot market freight stuff for General Motors, and it was really inconsistent and you couldn't rely on it. And so my dad tasked me with, Hey, why don't you go sell some contract business with those guys? And so GM was our first, was my first big win. And so we ended up being [00:02:00] supplier of the year for General Motors for several years. We were one of their largest carriers.
Toward the end of the relationship, we took our relationship with them and we grew that and expanded it to. All of your automotive manufacturing, whether it was Ford or Peterbilt or Nissan, BMW, and so we have a lot of experience on automotive logistics, inbound parts for assembly.
We have a lot of experience in cross border business. As a matter of fact, that expansion, I was a young man, but when I first started sales, I actually attended this Dale Carnegie course on leadership. And one of the speeches that I gave was on nafta and what NAFTA was doing to the trucking industry and how the footprint was changing with the factories moving to being outsourced and moving out of the country.
And so a part of our expansion come on, the realization, Hey, all these factories are moving, they're still gonna need that stuff trucked. We focused on targeting that activity and our explosion came from that. Our business grew because of NAFTA.
But then there's also this other story that we're gonna be telling today that we didn't see [00:03:00] coming, and that was that the factory jobs weren't enough. They were soon gonna come for the trucking jobs too. We expanded the business up. We sold it to a public company in 2014.
In 2019. I had a five year contract when we sold to stay on and managing that. That was up in 19, and in 19 was when it really started to catch up with us. And I told our shareholders, our board and our executive leadership team, guys, we really got a problem here.
I don't see a solution for competing with all of our competition in this cross border business now who are utilizing foreign commercial truck drivers. It's no longer the American truck driver takes it to the border and then the foreign truck driver will take it on his highways. Now they've got these loopholes that they're using and the drivers are coming all the way through.
And so we talked about that and ended up at the same time losing some major contracts to that. And I'd gone to several of my legislators being a big business. I had the year of a lot of our federal legislators here in the state of Arkansas and not, so I went to 'em and was talking about the issue. It's, look, I've, I'm laying off 450 [00:04:00] American truck drivers and office staff and that, that's the other side of this.
This doesn't just affect the truck driver. The truck drivers are also supporting billing clerks and customer service clerks. There's a whole nother ecosystem behind the truck driver. They're all being impacted too, and so the story is the trucking industry. I was like, man, this just doesn't seem like the way we should be headed here.
Surely there's loopholes that we can close or we can prevent this from happening and protect the American trucking industry. And I found opposition out of the Arkansas Trucking Association, which is just an extension of the much bigger American Trucking Association. This wasn't a fight that they wanted to have. They didn't want to take up the flag and stand up for the abuses here that were taking place, that were allowing the foreign commercial truck drivers to come in. And that was allowing it to grow at such a rapid pace. And, and so there's a much deeper story there about all the confrontation that we had at the time.
But the message from them was clear. They weren't gonna help. And so if I was gonna do anything, I was gonna be doing it [00:05:00] alone and I was gonna have to rally some support somewhere else.
In 2020, I decided to focus on my new business and I'd bought into a reefer trucking company. And there's obviously trucking companies who are being successful and they're not exposed to the cross border stuff. So maybe if I just get away from the cross border and focus on domestic freight, I, I won't have to fight this issue.
And then that industry found itself in a recession. My immediate thing was like, I guarantee it, those drivers are still expanding. That's still growing. There's no telling how big it is now, and it's probably starting to bleed over now into the other market spaces.That was always my first intuition. I. As that kind of rolled on, that started in 2022, was about the middle of 2022 when it first started.
And, and so time went on and my friends were bringing it up. Man, this is really a long recession. I kept telling 'em it, 'cause it's not a recession. I think we've got a supply problem here. And look, I was only focused on the foreign commercial driver's license. We have learned so much more since we've started working on this [00:06:00] to really explain what's happening to the trucking industry.
But at the time, I had a narrow focus because of my personal experience. And so it, it wasn't until the crash of Scott Miller and so I, I can remember very vividly I was sent home one night and the story come up on the television and it was Scott Miller had been killed in Colorado by a man who had been reported 16 times. He was under deportation orders at the time that he hit Scott Miller and killed him. And because of my experience in the industry, because of my knowledge of the issue, I was like, I know the loophole that got that driver in here. I know why that driver was able to be deported 16 times, but able to cross the border again in a commercial truck and go right back to work without anybody saying anything, without any consequence, without any control.
Then now here we have Scott dead. Now Scott Miller was married to Deanne Miller and they were also involved in the trucking industry. They had their own small trucking business. And here's a guy that was very safe in his own trade and was focused on safety and doing the right things. And his life is cut short by somebody taking [00:07:00] advantage of these loop loopholes.And I would argue. The ones responsible for this tragedy are the agencies that have allowed the loopholes to, to go on the driver involved in the crash. Ignacio, he, I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing, but he should have never been given the opportunity to go as long and as far as he did to get to this point for this tragedy.
And so we saw the Scott Miller crash and I started investigating it. I immediately found one in Arkansas in Lawrence County. It was the crash of Mark Bryant. And Mark Bryant had worked for Arkansas State University. He was driving home one night when A truck crossed the center line, hit him head on, and this driver had a fraudulent CDL from Mexico.
Again, same issue. We got this foreign commercial driver's license. The guy snuck across the border. Initially I'd said that he'd been in the country four days. It turns out, I think he'd only been in the country for 12 days, but he still had all of the stuff where he come across the border in the truck with him. He was living out of the truck and he passed a sharp curve. Missed the curve. Probably couldn't read the warning signs 'cause he didn't [00:08:00] speak English and crossed the center line hits Martin Bryant kills.
I was able to reach out to that family and say, I think I know what's going on here, but could you fill me in on all the crash information? And we had a little bit of trouble getting the crash information outta the state police and the report. And it's typical when these things go to investigation, they tie up the information for six months to a year, I was able to finally get that for the family and start working on the investigation here.
And so it was through that, it was through Scott Miller, it was through Mark Bryant, the contact with the family that. My partner Harvey and I decided, Hey, we know there's a gap here. We, we know the trucking association's not gonna help us. We know that there's no voice right now in the trucking industry that's focused on the impacts of immigration to trucking. So let's just start our own association and, and start trying to rally truck drivers, crash victims and American owned trucking companies who are employing American truck drivers and who are trying to do the right thing. And, and that's how we found [00:09:00] ourself with American Truckers United.
Matt Horine: Wow. That's an incredible story. So much of this is so deep rooted in generational working Americans, and you highlighted there who's speaking for the truck driver and who is looking out for that way of life? We see so much, we consider it very adjacent to manufacturing and distribution environments and people who. Have built great businesses and have built great models and built great economies around their companies and what they do every day to earn a living.
One of the things that really spoke to me when I saw your story, especially on X formerly Twitter, was how much of this has eroded? I. What we consider to be the high trust societies when credentialing agencies in places that are supposed to regulate and supposed to safeguard not only industry and professionalism, but really when lives are at stake here, how much of an impact it has on the broader populace and people just on the roadways and.Those so are so personal and, and it just speaks to how over the past couple of years things have seemed to [00:10:00] slip and that high trust, once that's eroded, we get to a place where, what can you trust and what can you do? And that's, I think you'd highlighted specifically since 2019, some of the things that had been happening with, I, I don't know if CDL mills is the right terminology for it or how these licensings come about.Your organization is so focused on that. Where do you see the bulk of the problem right now outside of industry advocacy, but these kind of agencies or firms that do issue these licenses and how come they are so drawn to bringing in foreign migration to take up these once great American jobs?
Shannon Everett: Once we got started on our in investigation, we started on our work, we quickly started to see that the problem was bigger than just the foreign commercial driver's licenses that I had experience with.
That come to us really, after we saw the Arkansas Trucking Association start passing around draft legislation that included the words non domicile commercial driver's license. So I've [00:11:00] been doing this for a long time and I'd never heard of a non domicile commercial driver's license. I'd never heard of a non domicile commercial learners permit. And so likewise, my partner who has been, he has almost the same story as I do multi-generational, grew up in it. His kids are working in it now. My kids are working in it now. He didn't know what a non domicile commercial driver's license was. And so we're both looking at each other. What are they doing here? What is this? And so we start researching, trying to figure out what is a non domicile commercial driver's license, and we find.
Then in 2019, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration had issued new guidance. So here we have a federal agency that has sent out new guidance for what their regulations and what their terminology means. And I know you probably know this, and I haven't been exposed to the legal system any at all, interpretation can change a lot. And so a lot of times. The words matter a lot, and so they went in and took out some of the language and their [00:12:00] guidance and changed the interpretation of the rulemaking so that states could start issuing these non domicile commercial driver's licenses to non-citizens.
Prior to that time, I think the original intent of the non domicile commercial driver's license was a guy from Arkansas could get a Florida CEL if he attended a school down there, which I don't agree with either. I think a driver's license should go from the state that you live in, should be issued to the resident.
And this is a great example of why, because it just opens up these doors and you end up where we are today. So they removed that guidance. And now in 2019, someone thought it was a good idea to start issuing these CDLs to non-citizens, not just people from other states, but people from other countries. We started tracking where these CDLs were showing up, and we identified about 10 states in the country who were starting to control a large market share percentage of freight passing through the state of Arkansas.
One of the things that we did was we sent a freedom of information request to our Department of Transportation and said, Hey. [00:13:00] Send us every inspection that y'all performed in the state of Arkansas and we wanna see who you're pulling over and what they're hauling. And so we quickly identified that there was 10 states that were controlling an unusually high percentage of market share of freight coming through the state of Arkansas that we didn't expect.
We've seen it with our eyes, but we didn't really understand what was going on. And now we knew who the 10 states were. And then we took that information and we said, okay, let's go find out how many CDLs these states are issuing. That's where it really gets weird. One of our partners, his name's Cliff, he come to me one afternoon. He said, Hey, I wanna help you investigate this stuff. I said, here, go find these. Go find these CDL counts. So he went to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's website, and that's the federal agency responsible underneath the United States Department of Transportation for monitoring all of these carriers and all the activity that's going on in the trucking industry.And so he gets into the website and he starts looking at the CDL issues by state.
And sure enough, what would you know? These 10 states had huge [00:14:00] anomalies of data where a state might be issuing 2000 CDLs to to new truck drivers a year, and all of a sudden the 2000 goes to a hundred thousand, and then the total population of the drivers for that state surges by a hundred thousand and it stays there.
Whoa, what is this? It's like drivers were dumped into the state, and so we started asking questions. We sent a communication to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. We called up the American Trucking Association and said, Hey, what is all this?
We started putting all of our posts on social media. Can anybody explain this to this date? No one has explained that to us, and the population count continues to stand at 6 million plus per the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website.
Now, what did happen was immediately after we exposed that, we started seeing the states get scrub. The data that we found disappeared, but then it was put back a couple days later and we're still waiting on an explanation from the Federal Motor Care Safety Administration.
But what we believe, as we found that information, we also [00:15:00] uncovered what was called the Biden Harris Trucking Action Plan, and that action plan was in 2021. Which aligns with all of this. 2019, they changed the guidance. 2021, they started issuing the CDLs. And in that action plan in their fact sheet, they actually state very proudly that they issued over 876,000 additional, uh.CDLs above the typical run rates and when you, when we do the math of the one time anomalies that we found in the data on the Federal Motor Care Safety Administration site, it comes out to around 800 some odd thousand additional commercial truck drivers.
So we believe that almost a million truck drivers have been dumped in to the American trucking industry intentionally. And we believe that in the fact sheets, from the information that we've seen, the demographics that they described they were using during the trucking action plan were women or 18 to 21 year olds and were refugees. I don't see a lot of extra women driving trucks. So our eyes aren't telling us that it's women.[00:16:00] I don't see a bunch of 18 year olds driving trucks. I do see a bunch of refugees.
So we believe the real intent was to find a place to put these refugees. And so we believe that you have almost a million drivers. We believe it's actually more than that. That's just what we've identified. We want to, we want to further investigate. We want a task force. We wanna get in here and see exactly what's happened and identify these people. But we believe you have almost a million people plus out here on the roadways that have come into the system. Pleaded asylum, been issued, EAD cards been issued a commercial driver's license.
We now know from the Doge team and what Elon Musk has been reporting that they were also given Social Security cards. And so this conversation that we're having ties directly back to what Doge has been reporting on and what Elon's been reporting on. What they don't know yet, because their team hasn't got to this information yet, is not only did they get a social security number, but they got issued a commercial driver's license too.
And I'm sure that's probably just a portion of that Social Security census. More people probably got social security numbers than CDLs, but a portion of those guys [00:17:00] also went on to get commercial driver's licenses and now they live on the Interstates of America.
Matt Horine: Yeah, it's really incredible. It's one thing to have a sense that things aren't right.We saw it in jobs reports, and to your point earlier in the show, how long people have been living a recession. You go through this step ladder of, Hey, we're in a recession, but we're gonna pretend that we're not. Or there's a certain amount of numbers of people who've crossed the border illegally. That's just a reported number. And your sense, your gut sense is that it's a lot higher. You get into social security cards and that feels very defrauding as a taxpayer, and that's very personal.
But when you get to your industry. That is something that affects everyone every time somebody's on the highway. And it's just incredible that amount of fraud is pertinent in the system, and that is, it's just an unbelievable statistic and one that runs counter to the narrative of, hey, there's a shortage of truck drivers, which is what we hear all the time.It's a, we have a crisis because we don't have enough truck drivers. And this ties really well until I think, what the opening of your story [00:18:00] was and how truck driving provides such a great way of life. And I. Saw your video on your website and how that provided such a middle class way of life for people to provide for their families and provide for their communities.
It's really an astounding statistic that it can just be watered down so quickly through loss of trust in the credentialing systems and the regulatory agencies that are supposed to keep everyone not only safe, but keep that integrity and sovereignty from everything from our border down to our workforce.So it's really just a, an incredible thing that it takes you and Harvey and people. Working outside of their day job, outside of what they do for a living to say, Hey, what is the right thing here? And that's really what I'm interested in getting to as well. I think, one, what wage dumping has done and two, the reforms that are necessary for this industry.How do we roll this back? How do we fix it? And what's the path forward?
Shannon Everett: Because we have all of these foreign commercial driver's licenses, because we have all of these new non domicile commercial driver's licenses that came [00:19:00] into the system because of lax enforcement, because of loopholes, because of ambiguity in the regulation and interpretation being abused. The impact has been those million drivers that we're describing, have come in and replaced a large census of American truck drivers.
So we have truck drivers that are leaving the industry. And then we also have, that group has now suppressed because they're working for less. They have now suppressed the wages of the remaining American truck drivers because they're competing with them for market share. You have the American truck driver who has been put through an inflation crisis over the last several years that all of us have lived through that has also at that same time, had his wages suppressed or has lost his job. And at the same time, you've had the companies that he worked for, the American Trucking Company, their rates have been suppressed or they've completely gone out of business.
We have over a hundred thousand trucking companies in the last two years that have closed shopping and moved out. We have more crashes than we've ever had. [00:20:00] We have the wages suppressed. We have the rates suppressed. And we have more fraud than we've ever had. There's reports that fraud since 2021, 2022 is up almost 400%. We believe it's all related there.
There's a crisis right now that everybody's talking about truck parking. There's not enough places to park all the trucks. So if we've got a million additional truck drivers. And the net population's up 300,000. So there's an extra 300,000 trucks that need to be parked.And so there's, there's probably six or 700,000 American truck drivers that have been replaced. And then there's an additional 300,000 drivers in trucks that need additional parking. So all of these issues, we believe, come back and are related to this root issue, which is unregulated immigration in our industry.And so we can't ignore it anymore. We've got to focus on it. We've gotta get the crash count down. We've gotta get these the, we've gotta protect the American truck driver. We gotta protect these American small businesses.
Look, the trucking industry is the backbone of our economy and [00:21:00] our war economy. When Covid happened, everybody treated the truck drivers as heroes because they all had to keep working through the crisis. Everybody else was closing down and going home. But everybody knew the supply chain had to remain as a matter of national security to protect the country. And that's not changing. And don't we wanna protect that? Don't we think there's gonna be another crisis coming? Shouldn't all those small and midsize businesses that supported us during Covid.
We wanna make sure that therefore, during the next crisis. And so that's what we're screaming, is we need help to protect this industry so that it's there in time of crisis. It's there during time of war, and it's there during times of peace.It's just a sustainable, healthy industry, and we believe it's headed in the wrong direction. So there's several remedies that need to be addressed and.
Number one is the English proficiency violation needs to be outta service. If a guy can't read the highway signs, when an officer observes that he needs to be taken outta, the truck needs to be shut down and it does not need to be allowed to continue on down the road.
We need to revoke these unlimited non domicile CDLs. We need to go in [00:22:00] and investigate whatever happened immediately revoke the status of those things and find out who these people are and address that properly. We need to put a cap on these foreign commercial driver's license that I've explained if we're gonna have a healthy trade relationship with Canada and Mexico, in the same way that they shouldn't have all of the manufacturing, they shouldn't have all of the trucking. And that's where we're at now.
If goods are being made in Canada, or goods are being made in Mexico and they're coming to the United States, that's now all being hauled by foreign commercial truck drivers. There's no balance there, so either put a cap on how many of their drivers are able to drive on American highways or put a tariff on them.That's the appropriate answer. There should be a tariff on their activity. That balances the living wage of an American truck driver with the living wage of the foreign truck driver.
And then we should close the loopholes, the abuse of the H-1B visa. Most of these guys that are coming in on these foreign commercial truck driver's licenses, they're using what's called a visitor visa, even though a lot of 'em are working for us Company.
How can you use a visitor visa? In the [00:23:00] immigration system and come into the United States and work for a U.S. company. You're not a visitor. If you're working for a US company, you're a worker. But the only reason that's allowed to continue and to expand is because our law enforcement officers who enforce trucking regulations can't enforce immigration. And so they pull over a guy. They're only able to focus on the trucking regulations and they have no idea if their visa's good or if they're supposed to be, or if they're in violation of a visa. And so we've gotta close that loophole.
And then I would say most importantly, there needs to be criminal statutes for these guys when they violate any of these rules and regulations and loophole. The death of Scott Miller. The driver should have been held accountable for that and should have received an adequate criminal sentence. He received a misdemeanor, and he's already been released from jail.
The guy who killed Mark Bryant should have received an adequate criminal sentence for the death of Mark Bryant.He was charged with a misdemeanor. He'd been released from jail.
You were talking earlier about a, what do we call a [00:24:00] high trust society? Because we live in a high trust society. We haven't put all of these laws on these things. When I talk about this all the time, usually the public's outrage because they just assume that's, this is already the law.Like they don't know all this stuff is taking place. That's because we live in a high trust society, and so people don't expect things like this to happen. So we don't have criminal statutes written in the current state law for a criminal illegal alien to be driving an 80,000 pound truck and to kill Mark Bryant 'cause nobody expects that to happen.
And so if we're gonna allow these guys to come into our country, then we're gonna have to write these laws so that they're properly sentenced and they're properly punished when they break these laws. I would prefer that we just go back to being a high trust society and we have strong borders and, and this is not a common occurrence. But unfortunately, it looks like we're gonna have to have a balance here. We're gonna have to, we're gonna have to write some code here to make sure that we criminalize these guys and they're punished properly.
Matt Horine: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's spot on. And people just expect these kinds of things to happen, and when they [00:25:00] erode, it not only puts everyone in a dangerous situation, but the overarching issue is the sovereignty of the, of a country and of a workforce, and people who expect these types of things to happen. And when they don't, you can see the ramifications and the deeply personal stories and all kinds of things that we've seen in the news over the past couple of years.
And that's deeply related to manufacturing as well. To your point, people will say things, there's a shortage of truck drivers or there's not the right type of labor force, but the type of thing that provides so much fulfillment and the dignity of work is the right kind of wages that match the market. And when you undermine these structures and what we all expect to hold something to a standard when they disappear or get changed on a whim, that changes people's lives in a way that you can't really track it in a spreadsheet.
You can't really say something about it as a data point. It's real. It's tangible. For those who want to find a way to support you and your mission, what's the best place they can find you online? And what are the next big steps with policy makers and industry leaders?
Shannon Everett: Go to our website [00:26:00] www.americantruckers.com.
This is bigger than just the trucking industry. This is about public safety and national security. We should know who these people are on our highways. They should be properly vetted before they issued a United States commercial driver's license, even if it's a non domicile commercial driver's license.
Speak up, make sure and tell your representatives and your senators both on the state level and on the federal level. And I would even go as far to say on the city level, Jacksonville, Florida just passed a new law, criminalizing some of this activity for these illegal aliens. And so I think there's things that we can be doing at all levels, but we've, but we've gotta speak up.And so calling your representatives is important.
Then following us on social media to see what we're up to and what we're doing next. We have a lot of activity on X at our handle is @ATUtruckers. We're on all social media platforms, but we tend to drive that one a little bit harder. And so we're gonna be taking this message. We worked on it hard in the state legislator here, but we're gonna be working hard in the federal with our federal legislators next.
And so you're gonna see a lot of activity out of us in Washington DC over the next couple months. And [00:27:00] so that's where we really need the help, is just bringing awareness, making sure that people know that we have your support with these representatives.
Matt Horine: For all of our listeners, please give American Truckers a follow on X. It's. Great content, very current information. I caught articles that you all had produced and Zero Hedge, and it's so informative about the, the industry and what's going on all around us. Shannon, thank you for the work you're doing. Thank you for bringing and shedding light on this issue that really impacts everyone who's on the roadway and it impacts manufacturing in such a big way. God bless you for the work you're doing and God bless our truckers. It's to your point, it's a national security issue and something that really saved the country over the past couple of years during pandemic era timeframes and brought things that people needed, and so it's so critical and so important.
Thank you so much for your time today.
Thank y'all for having me to stay ahead of the curve and to help plan your strategy and learn more about what's going on in US manufacturing and distribution.Please check out our www.veryableops.com and under the resources section titled Trump 2.0, where you can see the framework around [00:28:00] upcoming policies and how it will impact you.
Thank you again for joining us as we navigate this change in the market and learning more about how you can make your way.